From Fear to Potential: The Power of Growth Mindset with Michelle Blais

Nika Lawrie and Michelle Blais explore the importance of fostering a growth mindset in children and adults. They discuss how fear of failure can manifest from childhood experiences and the impact it has on capable individuals. Michelle shares strategies for parents to help their children build resilience, emphasizing the importance of praising effort over outcomes. The discussion also highlights the differences between growth and fixed mindsets, the process of building true confidence, and the significance of taking small steps towards change. Ultimately, the conversation encourages reframing failure as a part of the learning journey.

• Michelle on IG: https://www.instagram.com/misschellemindset
• Website: https://www.misschellemindset.com/
• FREE Why Capable Kids Freeze Training: https://bit.ly/4kDPH2r

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:17

Hey, and welcome back to This Is How We Rise. I am so grateful to have you join me again today. Today, we're going to talk about three things that I think are really important for all women and entrepreneurs and really everybody to know. And I have an amazing guest who is going to share all of her expertise with us. But today we're going to talk about why capable people shut down when things get hard and how that played a role from learning this as a child and then still dealing with it as an adult. We're also going to learn about how fear of failure shows up in kids and adults. It's again, we learn this as a child. And then if we don't deal with it, it'll impact us as an adult. One other thing we'll look at today is a simple mindset shift that helps people learn, grow, and move forward again, especially when we're stuck dealing with these kinds of things. So with that, I want to invite my incredible guest on today, Michelle Blaze. She helps parents build a growth mindset at home so their children can thrive in school, relationships, and throughout life and also as an adult. So, Michelle, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

I'm so glad to have you here today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Absolutely. Can you just give me kind of a brief background of who you are and where you came from and why you do what you do today?

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Yeah. So I have a background. Well, first um a psychology background and then 18 years in teaching. And as a teacher, I worked in a variety of different settings. And I worked inner city and then I moved out to the suburbs. And when I moved out to the suburbs, I thought that the needs would be less in the suburbs. I thought, you know, there's gonna be less needs, there's less kiddos learning English as their second language. And I get into this school in the suburbs, and I realized there were not less needs. There were actually the same amount of needs. They were just different, or I might even dare to say more needs. And what it was was these kiddos who are so capable. They have the skills, they have everything inside them, but they shut down the second time. It was like this paralyzing epidemic of anxiety. And immediately I had to these kids because that was me as a kid. And so I didn't have anyone, I didn't have anyone to coach me through it as a kid. So I really, really gravitated to these kids and did just all the training, all the, you know, work to learn how I could support them. And then I moved into taking what I do with the kids at school and teaching parents about it. So now I part-time work with kids and then I also work with parents.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

I love that. I really relate. I know when we first met, I told you about my daughter. She's a smart, beautiful, capable girl. And she really does pretty well in school. But we always have that struggle that when homework feels hard or she's uncertain about it, she starts to shut down and it gets um, it's just really sad to see her like that because I know she's capable of figuring it out, but her identity sometimes feels so much so intertwined with that feeling of, you know, not knowing what she's supposed to know. I'm doing like air quotes here, right? Like supposed to know. And so I love so much that you're working through this. And I think so many adults still deal with this, right? Like I know I'm always working through imposter syndrome issues and fear issues that I'm sure stem from childhood. So I think I bet your clients, the parents are getting as much out of it as the kids as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Even just on social media, I'll post tips to help kids with this. And people always comment. They're like, oh my gosh, this is me also. Like, I wish I had learned this as a kid. Right. Because yeah, I know sometimes the tendency when you see these early signs in your kids is to say, oh, they're gonna, they'll grow out of it. But unfortunately, with this, uh, we tend to grow into it more and more and more versus growing out of it.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

So what's actually happening here? Like, what are most people dealing with and what don't they understand about this?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

So, what it actually is, I mean, parents, a lot of things go through your head when you see your kids struggling. Like, oh, are they just maybe they're just lazy, they don't, they don't want to do it, or um, they're just being defiant. But usually what it is is that they're making getting something wrong means something about them inside. Yeah. So it's actually more so with those kids who are really capable, and even like kids who are gifted, it can be the hardest on them because they really associate being capable and being smart and being good with who they are as a person. So as something doesn't feel easy right away, it's like a red flag. It's like, oh my gosh, this means something about me. If I can't do this, that means I'm not smart. Yeah. So it's like interesting when you actually look at what's happening behind it.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

So what I mean, why does this impact people, especially people who are often kind of go-getters or, you know, kids that are really smart and motivated? Like these aren't the kids that are, you know, sitting in the back not paying attention. These are the ones that really want to do well and achieve. And, you know, we see this in in um, you know, really ambitious adults too. So why does this happen to the smart, motivated person?

SPEAKER_01 6:46

So what happens is unintentionally, just from the world, we pick up these cues that our outcomes are tied to um to being smart. So it's like smart means getting it right. And we, parents, unintentionally, we give our kids this feedback in the way that we praise them and in the way that, you know, they get 100% on the test. And our reaction to that can unintentionally have them link their worth to the outcomes that they get. And so I what I have seen is that it's often these real, the more capable they are, or you know, the the easier things come to them earlier on, it reinforces this feedback loop of like, oh, I am smart or I am a great athlete. And it makes it even harder down the road when something doesn't go easily. And what it is is these really bright, capable kids are the ones that actually get overlooked because they're in the classroom, they're not causing problems, they're super polite, they're lovely students, and they're probably doing really well in school. Um, but their parents see it at home. The parents start to see the cracks at home. The parents see like, I know they're capable, why aren't they doing it? But at school, they often like really fall through the cracks.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

What are um, what are some of the, I know we've touched on a few of them, but what are some of the kind of identifiable factors of these kids? And then are they the same things that we would identify in ourselves as adults? Like, oh, maybe we haven't dealt with this issue and we need to start working on it as an adult too. Like, how do we, how do we tell in our kids and in ourselves?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah, some of the some of the signs could be those, you know, needing it to be perfect. So writing and racing and retrying again, just over and over again. Um not being able to accept feedback unless positive. So that's sort of when they get feedback that's not positive, either getting super defensive or getting angry and shutting down and you know, taking it onto themselves. Um not in class, they often, these kiddos, they don't want to raise their hand unless they're like a hundred percent sure they're gonna be right. And this in adults, adulthood, if we, you know, don't deal with these things and work through them, which a lot of people are are still working through it in us. Yeah, it comes out as like sometimes procrastination, just like, oh, I'll do it later, I'll do it later, right? Um, or again, it's like entrepreneurs who need to post on social media. It's like, oh, okay, like I'll re-record it, I'll re-record it. It's not just right. Or I have all these steps I need to do before I can take that step.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

We don't want to admit that these steps that we need to do are kind of busy work that's avoiding the real thing. And the real issue is that we're worried about how we're gonna be perceived if it's not just right.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, it really comes down to the core of kind of our identity and how we fear or the concern we have about how the outside world is gonna perceive us, like our our um our lacking, maybe, you know, or our our lack of intelligence, maybe is something we would fear. What are some of the things that we can start doing, you know, specifically for kids, for for our children, but also are these tools that could help us kind of start to move through it? Do you have one or two that you could tell us that we start working on this week with our children and ourselves?

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Definitely. The first one is to actually like in ourselves is to recognize what it is, right? I think, especially as adults, like you don't want to look at it. You don't want to like look under the rug and like see what's actually causing it. You're just like, I'll do it later. So I think as adults, is actually looking at it and be like, okay, what am I trying to protect? Yeah. Doing it, having that very real sort of reflection, reflection with ourselves and with our kids, having that conversation with them too. Say, you know what? Sometimes when something's hard, our brain and our body like want to protect us. And so that's when you get that fast heartbeat and normalizing it. So saying that makes sense, right? That makes sense that you're feeling nervous about this or you're feeling upset about it. That totally makes sense because this is hard. I think step one would be just normalizing it for them, like changing the narrative around it. Um and also I think having the kids sometimes when they have a task to do that feels really daunting, they're like looking at, oh my gosh, it's like it feels so heavy. So instead of just being like, Kate, let's sit down, let's do this, it's like, let's just take one small step. Yeah. Let's take the first step. And after taking that first step, you'd be surprised how much more willing they are to take the next little step and the next little step, right? And even for us too, it's like you can look ahead and you could say, Oh my gosh, I have to do, I have to create this like hour-long presentation. And you're like, I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow. But you're like, hey, you know what? If I what if I just do like two slides right now? And then you do the two slides, and then you get in the flow and you're like, actually, so it's all of these strategies that are for kids are really like the same strategies for us too. It's actually just way easier to do it the younger they are, because then you're you're repattering them younger. It's it's harder when you're the adult doing it compared to, but really the strategies are the same.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

I love it. So it's it's the the chunking piece for for adults and children, definitely. And then um, one of the things I know that you taught me, this is probably a couple years ago now, but I think about it every single time my daughter comes home with, you know, she's great at spelling, and she always gets like a, you know, 95 or 100% on her spelling tests. And every single time I have to think, like I think to myself before I say something to her about how to praise the work that she put into being a great speller and not the outcome of the test. And I'm always trying to come up with different ways of saying that, which I think is the hardest part for me is how do I praise the effort and not the outcome. But I think that's something we really need to think about as adults, especially as entrepreneurs, is that, you know, we look at these uh, you know, top influencers with, you know, 200,000 followers or whatever, and they're praised for how big they've grown and how popular they are, but nobody praises them for like the nitty-gritty, crappy work that they had to do day in and day out to get there. And that's the real um achievement that they like got out of their own way and showed up every day and posted on social media and did the hard things. And that's the piece that we need to praise as an adult, too. So yeah, I love this.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

And how often do we even know those stories? Right. You look at someone and you're you just think that wow, like it it appears that it came so easily to them. But the real story underneath is never that. It's literally the blood, sweat, and tears, right? Yeah, but like you don't see that. So um, even with kids, I like to, you know, find those stories of those who really did struggle and share them with kids, right? Like there's so many great examples that kids can connect to, even right now, like um Stephen Curry with basketball, right? Like, oh wow, he's like, you know, doing so well. Well, you know, he was rejected repeatedly, um, even like in like middle school and high school, right? He was told you'll never even be a high school basketball player because you don't have the height. And so he had to relearn how he shot to handle his height deficit, right? So he had to like go back and learn a completely different way of shooting so that he could overcome his like height issue, right? And nobody nobody looks at that. I think they're starting to now more, you know, like he shares his story. Um, but everyone has a story like that.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

I think he even to this day, and I I may be totally off on the number, but I think to this day he still makes himself shoot uh a thousand like three-pointers a day, like every single day. So he stays sharp and in practice every single day. So it's always that effort that we aren't seeing on the court, right? Like he's on the court, but we aren't seeing it. It's that behind the scenes effort that really makes the difference.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Definitely. And so, like, catch your kids when they're, you know, regardless of the outcome of what they do, but when you see them persisting at something, like catch that and like latch onto that and say, wow, oh my gosh, I saw how you didn't give up when you like got stuck on that and like really celebrate those times versus yeah, when they come with the perfect spelling and just be like, oh my gosh, you got a hundred percent, be like, wow, like your practicing really paid off. Yeah. Yeah. Hard work on that really paid off.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

How does that impact them like long term? Like I know we've talked a little bit about um, you know, we see the same issues in adults, but how does that kind of change them in the progression of their, you know, maybe teen to adulthood? Does does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah. You know, the thing that happens is when they start avoiding the hard things and they start not doing not doing the thing unless it's perfect, it really starts to coach them and train them from a young age to play small. Yeah. Right. And it does not, as I said, it doesn't get better as they get older. Like as they get into the teenage years, they're they're not comparing themselves less as a teenager, right? They're comparing themselves more. So it continues to grow and they play smaller and smaller and smaller until this like kiddo who could freaking change the world is like scared to share their real opinion because what are people gonna think? And actually, with me, it's interesting when when you said that I identify, like I connect with these kids because when I picture myself in seventh grade, that was me, right? Like I was the ultimate perfectionist. But interestingly enough, I was looking through some old photos and I found pictures of me as a little kid. And I was like, holy, I was a super brave little kid until I wasn't, until I learned not to be brave. I found a picture and all these memories came flooding back. There's this picture of me wearing um my gymnastics costume and pink bunny ears with all my neighborhood kids that I had rounded up to and I led this parade around my neighborhood. And I rounded up all my neighbors to watch us. I made, I forced everyone to dress up, and I like wore these pink bunny ears and led this parade. And there was another picture of me um doing a solo in grade two on the stage at our Christmas concert, and this is the same person who lip synced, like oh, I'm from Canada, our national anthem. Most of my life, when we sing the national anthem, I lip sync it because I feel that I have a bad voice. Yeah. But this same little grade two kid is singing a solo on stage. So it's like at some point, I learned not to be brave. Signs are showing up when they're younger, they're they're gonna amplify.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Yeah. I think that's a good time to just touch on the difference between growth mindset and fixed mindset, right? Because um, you know, if we're teaching our children to have that growth mindset piece. And I think, you know, we hear about growth mindset so much in the adult personal development world too. But can you really explain the difference of how people get hooked into that fixed mindset and how, you know, children grow and succeed better, maybe I don't know if better is the right word, but you know, they have an easier time moving through life when they have that growth mindset built into them.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Definitely. So the fixed mindset is that linking their identity to the outcome of what they do. So if I get it all right, therefore I'm good. So um often people with a fixed mindset, they have this belief that I'm just not good at math. Or um, I'm just a natural, I'm just a natural athlete, but I'm not good at math. So they really, it's like black or white, right? It's like I'm at this, I'm not. Um, whereas those with a growth mindset, they recognize that effort and working on something is the path to eventually achieving it. And they don't link their identity to the outcome. So they're like, oh, it didn't work. Well, effort, you know, effort's gonna help me improve. So yeah, what we really want is our kids to adopt that growth mindset, that thinking, that that knowledge that if I work at something, I will improve. Right. And if I don't get something right the first time, that means nothing about myself, right? It has nothing to do with me that I that I didn't get that right.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things I started With myself and my daughter and my husband is my daughter comes home with math problems. And she does the math with my husband. And then I do like English and all the other the science and all the stuff with her. And we do that because I don't particularly like to do the math problems with her. And my husband is an expert in math. And so it just makes sense. But what I've realized is that I don't think it's that I'm not good at math. It's just that I choose to use my brain for other things. Like I, you know, I only have so much capacity to like learn and experience things. And just math isn't one of those things that I've been interested in. If I was interested in it, I would be capable of learning it. It's just not a passion of mine at this time, right? But like I've loved to learn about music and all kinds of other things, right? And so I think understanding that it's not a lacking or uh, you know, a self-worth thing. It's simply like a passion thing or an interest thing sometimes too. And if you decide to be interested in it, you'll want to learn about it and you're capable of learning about it.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Definitely, totally. And like really, like we want to instill that like love of learning in kids and like love of like growth. Like I'm doing this for like, you know, the challenge of learning it. And I'm doing this to like expand myself. I'm not doing this so that I get 100% and that, you know, to get that praise, right? And that praise is often like a dopamine hit too, right? Like bringing you their like tests and they're like, they want that dopamine hit of like, tell me it's great, right? And so it's even like for us, making that shift um can be tricky, right? Because we want to tell them it's great. And it's it's not that we're stopping and we're not gonna, you know, we're not gonna acknowledge what they've done, but it's like shifting it just that little bit so that we're talking about how they got there.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Yeah, yeah. What are some mindset shifts that we can start making today to help us, you know, and I don't think everybody's completely 100% fixed mindset and completely 100% growth mindset, right? But like those places that we're definitely feeling fixed, like we're, you know, kind of stuck in a thought process that we have about ourselves or we see that in our kids. What are some shifts that we can start making to help kind of move out of that?

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Definitely, yeah. Nobody is like all fixed and all growth. So, like, yeah, like your kid could be super growth mindset with sports and then like fixed mindset in other areas. Um, I think the biggest thing is normalizing just trying it and celebrating just like taking those steps and giving it a try, right? Not about the outcome of if you like in football, you're you score three touchdowns. It's not about that. It's like, wow, you like put yourself out there and you played full out. Yeah, retired. Or like, wow, like they asked you to play with those older kids on the team, and you, you know, you did it, even though you were like smaller than them, and even though, you know, they were more advanced than you, you did it. So same with us too as adults, right? It's just like celebrating putting in the reps and taking the steps over like the outcome. And it gets hard, right? It's hard for adults too. So again, it's like we're not looking for perfection in ourselves or our kids, right? It's like that's the whole problem, is like thinking that it has to like be right all the time, or like I have to like model this growth mindset for my kids all the time, right? It's like we want like it's not about perfection. It's about if I'm doing my best and I'm trying and I'm, you know, wherever I can modeling that growth mindset, then that's awesome. Like I'm not gonna beat myself up on it, on my like beat myself up if I, you know, don't do it perfectly or yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

I think this really plays into, you know, so many people want to feel confident. Like parents want to have confident kids, and then adults want to feel confident themselves or, you know, feel even just confident again. I feel like so many adults feel like they've lost confidence in themselves. And like, I want you to kind of talk about the real misunderstanding wow, how confidence actually forms. Like, we think it's something that we just need to like pull out of ourselves, but I think it's something we really need to build. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah, confidence. If confidence is linked to the outcome of achieving something, that's not confidence at all. Yeah. A lot of people mistake, like, oh wow, like I stood on this stage and I got this applause and I did this, and like therefore I'm confident because I got this feedback from people that that I'm good enough. When the confidence is tied for us and our kids, when the when confidence shows up just when things are going well and when we we get the achievement and we do the right thing, that's actually the opposite of confidence. Confidence, real, like true confidence, comes from taking the steps regardless of the outcome. So when nobody's telling you you're amazing, you're doing it anyways. Yeah. So, like with the kids, like I said, just if they're not willing to if if it feels overwhelming for them to do the thing, it's like we don't have to finish the thing. We just take like the next little brave step.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

One step.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

And then one step leads to two steps. And then you can always, once they've made enough steps, you can refer back to them and you can say, look, like, look at what you've already done. And seeing for us too, seeing that evidence of those steps builds the true confidence. So it's the evidence of the steps, not the evidence of the outcome or the outside praise. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

So it's it's it's allowing our children and also ourselves to kind of push through the struggle, right? And and keep going and keep working, even when it feels hard, because like you're saying, like the evidence of the work that we've accomplished and the progression that we've made is what builds that confidence.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Yeah, confident, confidence, real confidence comes from doing the thing and then seeing, like, wow, I was like super scared and I did that. And I'm okay, right? So what else could I do? Yeah. Yes. Possible for me when I've done that and um not making it all or nothing, right? Like, I have to, you know, if your kid is terrified to put their hand up, it's not like, okay, now you have to do a one-hour speech in front of your class. It's like if they're terrified to put their hand up, like what's the one little brave step they can do? And then what's one more little brave step and one more little raised step that over time accumulates to like maybe one day they will stand up in front of the whole class and give a speech, but um not making it that like all or nothing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

So for the parent who is overwhelmed, or you know, the entrepreneur that's just trying to get out of her own way, what is one small step that you would suggest them to take today to start really helping either their kid or themselves move forward and get out of this um un like kind of toxic energy in a sense, right? And like start to feel really good and proud of themselves.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

I would say find the one small thing that you can do. What's the what's the small th step that you can take because you're gonna like start that little bit of moment momentum? So like look at what your big thing is you want to do, and like what's the smallest thing you could do right now? Yeah. Guarantee you, once you do that small thing, you're like, oh, okay, that wasn't so hard. And then do the nod, do the next, do the next. So like just breaking it down and being okay with with doing the the first small thing instead of like all or nothing.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

I always love the the I don't know who brought it up, but in self-development, they talk about doing a five-minute timer. And so it's like when you have something big, like a hard project you you have to do and you've been procrastinating or avoiding doing the work, you just set your timer for five minutes. And all you have to do is work on it for five minutes and you give yourself permission to get up and walk away after that five minutes. But usually once you've started it for five minutes, you're over the hump of the hard, the hard part, right? Like the the mental shift is just start working on it that you just keep going and knock out a big chunk of the project. So it's it's that, yeah, that little piece you just gotta focus on.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

I love it. Like I love what you said about the the timer thing too, right? It could be a little step, or it could be like you're working with your kid on homework and you're like, I'm gonna set the timer for three minutes. Like we're gonna, we're gonna not give up on this math problem for three minutes. Yeah. Right? Like, let's do it. So I love like it what you said, it could be a time, a time frame or it could be a small step, but just setting it the one little thing, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Yeah. So, Michelle, I have uh one last final question for you. But before I get to that, where can the listeners find you and connect with you? And before you answer that, I just want to say that you have been so helpful in my relationship with my daughter. And I really hope if there is parents out there listening who are struggling with children who they know are capable, but like just need that little extra like hump like to get over the hump. Excuse me. Sorry, Michelle is like a god sent to check her out. So, Michelle, where can we find you?

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Oh, oh my gosh. Thank you so much, Nika. Um sorry, that will cough. You can find me pretty much everywhere. I'm mostly hanging out on Instagram, but um Miss Shell Mindset everywhere. So that's my Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, that's my website is missshellmindset.com. And I don't know when people might be listening to this, but if you're listening to it, this and it's the beginning of February, then I actually have a free workshop that I'm doing on February 18th. And it's all about this. So it's like when capable kids freeze, I'm gonna give like the fixes that other people aren't aren't sharing. So it'll be like a full hour together diving deep into this. So um maybe I'll send you the link if if people want to join my work. Absolutely. I'll put everything in the show notes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Awesome. Well, Michelle, my last question for you today, if I can get through it without coughing, I apologize. I got a tickle. Um if you could help people around the world rise into their full potential, what is one shift you believe would change everything for them?

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Yeah, I think the one big shift would be reframing failure and putting in those reps. So, like actually reframing that it has nothing to do with you when things work out. Like for us and our or sorry, when things don't work out, it's just seeing putting in the reps as that's my job is to put myself out there, try things that are, you know, outside of my comfort zone, and just step by step work through them. And if it doesn't work out, it's not a reflection on me. So I love that.